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Hello all,
I have a new and improved blog (at least I think it’s new and improved), and I will no longer be maintaining or commenting on this blog. I’m leaving it up because I think the archives are worthwhile and sometimes enjoyable to read, but all the action, so to speak, will be on my new blog.
I look forward to seeing you at the NEW and improved Trapped…..
http://www.trappedbythemormons.wordpress.com
I am working on upgrading my blog, so it’s a little basic right now. But hey, it’s still there!
I have long felt that the Mormon belief in temple marriage, and leaving out those who do not practice the LDS tenets, is one of the most harmful, painful, and irresponsible beliefs in the entire system.
Today, I ran across a story from March 2010, and it illustrates my own beliefs very well. It also shows both sides of the story, and the pain the “we are better than you” tenet of Mormonism causes for everyone who might come from a divided religious family.
She raised her son to be sensitive, to be Catholic, to be her friend. When he was 18, he joined the Mormon Church.She fought it. He fought back. They worked to stay close anyway. There were years of long talks on the phone: sometimes awkward, sometimes just like before.
He went on a church mission. He went to college. She went on working, coordinating weddings.
Last fall, another blow: He was in love, getting married - in the Mormon temple - and she couldn’t come.
An active Mormon reading this story would say, “Of course she could come. Everyone is welcome in our temples. They just have to live by the LDS standards, be baptized, and get a temple recommend.”
Ah, so easy, isn’t it? Except…. What if you have valid reasons for NOT believing. What if, in fact, it would violate everything you ARE to pretend to believe something just to see your child married. Why should this even be a consideration? Why does the LDS hierarchy not realize what kind of bad juju they are putting out there by saying, “We are better than you.” Because when you say, “Only the worthy can go in,” you ARE saying you are better than the person who isn’t Mormon.
The only way to BE worthy is to BE Mormon. If you are not, you will not get inside those temple doors.
I personally will not wait outside the temple for anyone, including my brothers and sisters. If I am not welcome inside, I am not welcome. Period. Of course, I will celebrate a reception with them, because they are not keeping people out. But one of the most important milestones in a life–something so major it changes lives forever–is often taken from ex- or non-Mormon family and friends, and I find this bigoted, divisive, and wrong.
What this belief does is tell people they are NOT as good as the person standing next to them, just because that person decided to believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon with his head stuck in a hat, and because they choose to wear funny underwear.
I don’t know what will happen if my two daughters decide they are going to join the LDS Church. If there is one thing I’ve learned in my life, it’s to never say never. I’ve done a lot of bending and taken a lot of abuse from my children, because that’s what parents do. Whose child HASN’T looked at them like they are the stupidest, dumbest, most unhip person in the universe? This, of course, comes when the mutant, er, child enters the teenage years.
They do outgrow this, I hear, but I’m not sure that Mormon children do, or ever will, understand why this is such a huge issue.
Why would anyone want to get married in a secret ceremony that the outside world cannot see or participate in? Why would you WANT to be married in a union that discriminates against the very people who brought you into this world?
Take a minute and read the story. It’s worth the ride.
Happy Sunday.
I try to avoid Utah County as much as possiible, because it’s a pretty scary place. Home to BYU, moral crusaders like Gayle Ruzicka, and quite a few closet-alcoholics who only drink when they are alone and in their cars, Utah County is a haven for oddities and strangeness. And of course, bigotry.
The funniest thing about people in Utah County, and sometimes in Utah itself, is that they don’t feel like they have to come up with plausible reasons to object to something. They figure they just get to say, “No, we don’t want that, because the Bible tells us so,” and WHAMMO, it’s gone. RE-moved. Sort of like Gayle Ruzicka’s brain after she was abducted by aliens. (Hey, I can’t come up with a better reason for her hateful and ignorance-filled agenda than that. Let me know if you have a better idea.)
Now, according to Fox 13 News, some people in Utah County are objecting to anti-hate messages that are posted on someone’s PRIVATE property.
UTAH COUNTY, Utah —A battle in Utah County is brewing over some signs posted near an elementary school.
Leonard Ridley lives next to Art City Elementary in Springville. He recently posted three signs on his fence, facing the playground after he read news about the recent rash of gay suicides.
“They signs of course say stop gay suicide, tell the truth, gays are born gay,” Ridley said. “I realized at that point that I was in an enviable location in back of the school and this would be an opportunity to provide information to the children tat would be carried to the adults in their lives, to the teachers, to their parents in particular and carry information concerning homosexuals and homosexuality that would perhaps contradict with the mistaken ideas that they already had.”
School administrators at Art City Elementary said they are questioning the appropriateness of Ridley’s signs.
“The District is very concerned about the content of the signs and it’s not his beliefs are different from other peoples. It’s that the content on the signs is adult in nature,” said Lana Hiskey Nebo. “It discusses suicide specifically which is something that we don’t discuss at the elementary level.”
A city code enforcement officer has determined the content of Ridley’s signs is in compliance with code but all three signs together are too large. Ridley said he plans to rotate through the signs one at a time. var afterLoginLocation = ‘’; var defaultLocation = $(’articlePromoLink’).href; var wasClicked = false; if (!!window.carnival) { new memberNav( ‘#articlePromoLink’, function() { //user is logged in if(!!afterLoginLocation && afterLoginLocation != ‘’ && afterLoginLocation != ‘default’){ $(’articlePromoLink’).onclick = function(){ carnival.utils.listener.fire(’_carnival_’+afterLoginLocation); wasClicked = true; return false; } } }, function(){ //user is not logged in if(!!afterLoginLocation && afterLoginLocation != ‘’){ $(’articlePromoLink’).onclick = function(){ carnival.modal.popit(location.protocol+’//’+carnival.configuration(’currentDomain’)+’/'+signon.folder+’/site/registration/modal.signon’); wasClicked = true; carnival.user.afterLogin( function(){ if(!!afterLoginLocation && afterLoginLocation != ‘’ && afterLoginLocation != ‘default’){ carnival.utils.listener.fire(’_carnival_’+afterLoginLocation); } else if(wasClicked){ window.location = defaultLocation; } } ); return false; } }//if } ).writeNav(); }//if
Okay, now first of all, the way I see it, Spongebob Squarepants is probably too “adult-themed” for Utah County. And someone SOMEWHERE has NOT been paying attention, because these kids know a whole lot more then they are being given credit for. Someone at that school is undoubtedly dealing with the insecurities of same-sex attraction, and wouldn’t it be nice to have even ONE child saved, if a sign can even do that? It’s a nice idea, although I’m not sure how successful it will be.
But adult-themed? We are glad you don’t talk about suicide in elementary school, but trust me, these kids are hearing it elsewhere, and it won’t be the first time they hear that word. In addition, sometime in their life, each of those children is going to experience the effect of suicide first-hand, whether it be a friend, a relative or loved one, or someone they hurt and bullied.
Elementary school is the perfect age to begin teaching diversity and acceptance, instead of handing your child a closed book of dos and don’ts, summarizing what it is in it for them, then locking it up and telling them to always carry it with them, but never try to open it.
You cannot hide your children from suicide, just as you cannot hide your children from the fact that sometimes boys love boys and girls love girls.
I’m glad the homeowner won this one. If he touched even one life, it was worth all the hassle.
SPEAKING OF UTAH COUNTY:
I ran across this video today, and laughed my proverbial butt off. Very funny, cheeky stuff, done by a group at BYU. Enjoy.
Before Thanksgiving, I went to Hawaii. That was GOOD. VERY GOOD. I want to live there, even if I have to live on the beach with the roosters and chickens. They didn’t bother me much. Although they were pretty noisy starting around 3 a.m.
While in Hawaii I got to swim with sea turtles, a shark, and a monk seal. (Don’t have the pictures of the shark or the monk seal yet.)
It is truly a paradise, and the pictures don’t do it justice. My sinuses, skin, and hair loved the humidity.
Immediately on returning, I got smacked with yet another nasty sinus infection. Am due for some rather extensive sinus surgery/rhinoplasty in a week or so.
In addition, my friend just passed away of lung cancer, leaving behind a 16-year-old daughter. Birdman’s not feeling so good, I have more days when I am down then up, and it WON’T QUIT SNOWING.
Blah.
Let’s go back to the Hawaii pictures. How can that NOT make you feel better?
I’m sure you’ve all noticed it. Emails that appear to be coming from someone you know, with nothing but a link. It grows every day. I get 10 to 20 a day. We’ve scanned our computers, run malware and spyware programs, run a firewall, and have NOT clicked on a link that was “phishing,” and yet Birdman’s hotmail account fell prey to this. While we were in Hawaii. WHILE HE WAS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR a computer.
When you go to Hotmail for a solution, they blame it on a “phishing” attack, which ultimately leaves YOU to blame. [windowslivehelp.com]
Hotmail believes that this may be due to one of these reasons:
1. The user has fell victim to some type of phishing scheme - either they replied to an email threatening to close their account if they didn’t provide their password, or they went to a website that looked like the Hotmail sign-in page and provided their password.
What to do?
The fastest way to get your account back, whether it was locked or you simply forgot your password, is to reset the password using account proofs. Proofs are like spare keys. If you set them up in advance, you can later use them to prove you are the legitimate account owner. Up until now, we’ve offered two proofs, an alternate email address and a personal question paired with a secret answer. However, there were limitations to these. For example, only 25% of people with a secret question actually remembered their answer when needed.
This makes me angry, because in reality, they problem is most likely on THEIR end, and they are not owning up. Yes, they did not hack or give someone permission to hack their servers, but you can at least say, “It happened, and we don’t know why.”
I’ve found several articles that are promoting this theory, and it’s one I believe in. I’m not fond of the grammatical failure in the heading of this article, but it is STILL very basic and good information.
http://www.9to6.com/2010/10/microsoft-hotmail-servers-have-possible-been-hacked-you-hotmail-account-is-in-danger/
The Holy Grail amongst hackers – Microsoft Hotmail may have been hacked recently. The evidence was posted on an online forum October 1st 2009. Hotmail is currently the largest web-based e-mail service.
The passwords to 10 028 Hotmail accounts listed form A to B were posted on an online forum used by software developers on October 1st 2009.
Microsoft said it was investigating this incident and has not yet offered any official statement about what has happened.“We’re actively investigating the situation and will take appropriate steps as rapidly as possible,” a spokesperson said.
The list was posted on Friday at pastebin.com but has since been taken away from the forum.
Parts of the list has been verified and the accounts on the list appeared to be genuine and mostly from Europe.
The list detailed accounts starting from A through B, indicating there are more accounts been compromised.
The worst part is, you WILL not get any help from Hhotmail, because they are denying any responsibility. If you have a Hotmail account, I would get rid of it ASAP.
Easier said than done, I know. As Birdman says, his whole LIFE is in that account.
However, you can try IMMEDIATELY changing your password and security information. I’m not sure this will solve it, but it’s worth a try.
(Nov.
— Elizabeth Smart took the stand today in the federal trial of her accused kidnapper and described how she awoke in the early morning hours of June 5, 2002, to feel a knife at her throat. The man holding it threatened to kill her and her family if she did not come with him, she said.
“He said he was taking me hostage, for ransom,” Smart, now 23, testified, according to The Associated Press. “I was shocked. I thought I was having a nightmare.”
This is a very worthwhile cause, devoted to saving our confused and downtrodden GLBT youth that have heard some pretty ugly messages aimed at them in the past few weeks. IT GETS BETTER. The Trevor Project deserves applause.
Mormonism and politics have merged in two Western campaigns this month, providing a glimpse of the renewed scrutiny Mitt Romney could face in a 2012 presidential run.
In the Nevada Senate race, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid faced allegations from his Republican opponent’s pastor that he is a member of a cult. Reid is a Mormon convert.
In the Idaho governor’s race, Republicans accused LDS Democrat Keith Allred of pandering to Mormons to wrest the governor’s office from incumbent C.L. “Butch” Otter. About a third of Idaho’s population is Mormon, and candidates’ success could hinge on how well they court the LDS vote.
From The Salt Lake Tribune.
As second counselor in the governing First Presidency, Dieter F. Uchtdorf is one of the highest-ranking leaders in the hierarchy of the nearly 14 million member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to address the thorny topic of whether same-sex attraction is inborn.
The gentle tone and emphasis of Uchtdorf’s remarks — spoken at the Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City and beamed to dozens of church buildings — came in the wake of an earlier speech by Boyd K. Packer, senior member of the LDS Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
We still have a long way to go, but it is going to happen.
On Sunday, Uchtdorf reiterated the church’s position that it doesn’t know the cause of homosexuality and that it doesn’t matter.
“Many questions in life, however, including some related to same-gender attractions, must await a future answer, even in the next life,” Uchtdorf said. “Until then, the truth is, God loves all his children, and because he loves us, we can trust him and keep his commandments.”
I tried to address Todd in a comment, and realized that this is someone everyone should read and see. He is single-handedly destroying any good impression ANYONE might have had about Mormonism. He and Boyd K. Packer should go have a Coke, er, Sprite together. They have lots in common. I have NOT removed ONE WORD of his answer. Nor have I taken it out of context.
Dear Todd,
First of all, let me tell you that you have made a complete and utter jackass of yourself on this blog. I’m not trying to be rude, but honest. Do you not realize what damage you are doing to your church by your convoluted and arrogant arguments? I’ve received private emails from readers–most who have never been Mormon–who have said “Wow, this guy is crazy. Even if I were thinking about joining the Mormon Church, everything I’ve heard from him would lead me to never even consider it.”
In short, you have driven people away from Mormonism, the very thing which will get you in the most trouble with your religion. Think it doesn’t happen? Think again.
You are neither logical or consistent. You spin constantly. You don’t answer questions. You insult, and then sign your posts “with love.” Very typical of narcissistic or borderline personality disorder. The more logic we throw at you, the more irrational you become. It’s….odd. I don’t remember you being mentally unstable in high school, but it’s obvious I knew very little about you.
And now, I will do something you NEVER do. I will address your points. But before I do, I must reiterate the damage you are doing to the LDS Church, the very thing you think you are defending. You are coming off as completely crazy. Nothing drives normal people away faster than a fanatic, and it’s obvious you are extremely fanatical.
I said:
1. If we don’t follow ALL THINGS written in the Bible, why do we follow this interpretation of sexuality? I gave you SPECIFIC examples. Please address them.
You did not. Instead, you said:
Your attempts to frame the debate around Old Testament laws won’t work. I’m not bound to believe or adhere to ANYTHING in the bible. How the ancient Israelites chose to govern themselves is irrelevant.
Um, have you started your own branch of the Mormon Church? The Church of Todd? Because I’m telling ya, you have got it wrong. From your OWN CHURCH’S Web site:
Do Mormons believe in the Bible?
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called “Mormons”) revere the Bible as the word of God and use it regularly. Mormons use the Bible for personal study and teach from it during Sunday worship services.
Like all Christians, Mormons consider the Bible to be a sacred record that includes Heavenly Father’s dealings with ancient people who lived in the eastern hemisphere. It speaks of covenants He made with His children through prophets like Noah, Moses, and Abraham and recounts the events surrounding the ministry of His Son, Jesus Christ, as witnessed by the Apostles and others.
So actually, as you will see above, YOU ARE BOUND by the Bible. Your church believes it to be the WORD OF GOD. It does not say
only the NEW Testament is the Word of God. In FACT, that page specifically mentions BOTH the Old AND New Testament.
How can the Bible help me and my family?The Bible helps us know right from wrong. It testifies of Jesus Christ and teaches us how following Him can bless our lives. Studying the Bible—whether alone or with our families—brings peace and happiness to our homes as we follow the counsel recorded by ancient prophets.
The Church has developed free resources and study aids that can help you and your family learn and understand the truths contained in the Bible. Below are links to these resources.
- View colorfully illustrated stories from the Old and New Testaments, written at a basic reading level.
- Read the Old Testament and New Testament online.
Nowhere does it say that any Mormon is not bound by it. It says it is THE WORD OF GOD. I also missed the part where it said, “Everybody is bound by it but Todd.” The Church of Todd may not be bound by the Bible, but the official LDS Church. Yes. As far as it is “interpreted correctly.”
So what attempt is it I have made, short of stating truth, and quoting your own Church’s Web site WORD FOR WORD with no changes? No attempt at all to “take it out of context.” I am trying to get your answers as to why you only believe certain things in the Bible (which you irreverently put as lowercase, which would offend any Christian and those of us who live on getting our grammar fix daily) ? I stand behind my statement. The LDS Church believes the Bible to be the word of God. Please answer my questions accordingly.
You quoted me:
2. I do not HATE Mormonism. I have made that patently clear. I don’t like some of the doctrine, and specifically the doctrine that discriminates. Please address the changing of the Book of Mormon to say “pure and delightsome” to say “white and delightsome.” Tell me, why was the most perfect book on earth changed so many times? Remember, Joseph Smith himself said it was “perfect.”
This is nothing more than you regurgitating more tired, old, anti-Mormon rhetoric to try and score “gotcha” points. How are changes in the Book of Mormon relevant to this topic? I’m dumbfounded that you are even serious. Totally lame.
How are changes in the Book of Mormon relevant to this topic? Joseph Smith said it was the “most perfect book on earth.” So why has it been changed? If Joseph Smith is a prophet, and the book was perfect then, WHY CHANGE IT? As always, you do not address my questions directly, but attempt to insult me. Lame? Dumbfounded? You are right. You are dumbfounded, but it ain’t me whose doing the “dumbing down.” Insulting me does not take away from the fact that you have once again skirted around the ISSUE.
You say you don’t believe in homosexuality because the BIBLE says it is a sin. In the Old Testament. Which you have JUST TOLD ME YOU DON’T HAVE TO ADHERE TO. So where is your basis to condemn homosexuality? Once again, you did NOT ANSWER the question. I know why, and you know why, and so does everyone reading. It’s because YOU CAN’T. You have to call me names and insult me, to try to divert attention away from the fact you just plain don’t know. You can’t defend it. So it’s easier to be nasty and ugly.
You quoted me:
3. Are you unable to see that there is a revolution going on here? I really just want to know. Because you need to prepare yourself. This is akin to the civil rights issues of the 60s and 70s. It will take longer to get there, but it will happen.
Thanks for watching out for me. The significance of this issue on society completely escaped me.
Once again, you have backed yourself into a corner. If there is no significance of this issue on society, then WHY DO YOU CARE? Why are you fighting against it? If it HAS no significance, why is the LDS Church spending MILLIONS of dollars to keep it from happening? Why do you keep coming back here and making a fool of yourself? I doubt Thomas S. Monson considers it insignificant. We both KNOW Boyd K. Packer does not consider it insignificant, or he wouldn’t have so callously offended those with same-sex attraction just days after three different suicides caused by gay bullying.
You quoted me:
4. Please explain to me how a brother marrying a sister is the same as a non-related man marrying another man. The law behind brothers and sisters marrying has more to do with the genetic problems than anything else. How does this have any relevance at all?
Let me restate the relevance of this point.Your logic is that marriage is a fundamental right protected by the 14th amendment’s equal protection clause. People should be able to choose who they want to marry. Right? Please, tell me if that isn’t your logic.
Why would you limit marriage to unrelated individuals only? And why frame the argument around brother-sister marriages? Can’t two brothers or two sisters have just as meaningful a relationship as two unrelated men or women? Why is unrelated SSM okay, and related SSM not okay? It is directly relevant, because your own logic makes it relevant. You refuse to acknowledge ANY moral standard upon which to elevate marriage.
Have you ever heard of separation of Church and state? It comes from the very same constitution you are quoting. In short, you don’t GET to pick the morality for others. Mormons are NOT the majority. In fact, they are quite distinctly the minority in the world.
Can two brothers and or two sisters have just as meaningful a relationship as a same-sex couple? No. Incest is driven by a very different animal than homosexuality, as is pedophilia. Likewise, most pedophiles are NOT homosexuals. You are not a psychologist, and you have no training in this, and you refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE any scientific studies. But you just keep spouting your mouth. You need to shut up, because you, quite frankly have nothing to reference your statements with, and refuse to supply it, but continue to get uglier and uglier.
You are trying to lump the two together, so you make sure that everybody knows just how perverted you consider homosexuality to be. But it doesn’t matter. You can’t back it up. You have no actual facts to base your statements on.
You quoted me:
5. How do I “hate” Mormons. Please give specific examples of my hate. Because disliking a doctrine does not amount to hate or bigotry.
I’ll take you at your word that you don’t hate Mormons.
However, your hateful, bigoted rhetoric and baseless assertions about Mormons, Mormonism, and religion in general lead me to question your characterization that you merely “dislike” a few of the doctrines. I’ll let the inquisitive read through your seven years of blogging to decide for themselves how you really feel.
What’s going to happen here, Todd, is that people will read this blog and see you can’t defend one thing you are fighting for. As always, you have not given me ONE example of being hateful or of me offering up bigoted rhetoric. Just because you SAY I have, doesn’t mean I have. At this point, people are reading your comments for the sheer comedy of it.
You quoted me:
6. I’m going to be perfectly honest here. Why don’t you try it. I do NOT support polygamy as it is practiced by perverts like Tom Green, Warren Jeffs, et al., who are destroying the lives of children. As far as what consenting adults do, that is their business.
Wow. Brave admission, and totally inconsistent with your previous rhetoric. What if the spouses of perverts like Tom Green and Warren Jeffs consent? Why don’t you support marriage between the closely-related, provided they both consent? If it can be shown that same-sex marriages harm children, would you be against it?
Really? What rhetoric? And hardly brave. And 12 and 13-year-old girls are NOT old enough to consent. You have daughters. What you have just written is abhorrent. That you would willingly put them into such a fate if your church were to say, once again, that polygamy was going to be practiced is sickening. Would you let your 13-year-old daughter be married off to a 45-year-old man with six other wives, Todd? Would you push her into his arms, even as she sobbed and begged and pleaded with you not to make her do it? Would you whip her and beat her if she ran away, as Krista Nelson did? She didn’t want to marry her uncle in the Kingston clan. Her father tracked her down and beat her severely. THIS is the polygamy you are talking about. You would do that to your daughter?
If it were proven that same-sex marriages harmed children, then yes, I would probably be against it. But it doesn’t, hasn’t, and won’t. Now, would a dysfunctional same sex marriage be harmful to a child? Of course. Just like a dysfunctional heterosexual family is harmful to a child. Look at the statistics, Todd. Heterosexuals regularly beat, abuse, and mentally screw up their children. Dysfunctional is dysfunctional.
You quoted me:
a. Why do you agree with polygamy and not gay marriage? And if you don’t agree with polygamy, why are you claiming to be a believing Mormon?
Polygamy doesn’t vitiate marriage.
Using big words doesn’t confuse me, Todd. From Merriam Webster:
Definition of VITIATE 1 : to make faulty or defective : impair vitiated by obvious haste — William Styron> 2 : to debase in moral or aesthetic status vitiated by prejudice> 3 : to make ineffective vitiates a contract>Please prove that polygamy does not vitiate marriage. Ask the girls who were married away as 12- and 13-years-old. How the hell do YOU know that polygamy does not vitiate marriage? It most certainly does and can. Your argument is ridiculous, and you have given no facts to back it up. Furthermore, you have given me no facts that same sex marriage “vitiates” marriage. You must be dizzy from all your spinning. You quoted me:
7. And my last question is this. WHAT impact would gay marriage have on YOU.
Same-sex marriage vitiates the institution of marriage and (even if ever so slightly) opens society up to a whole host of even more deplorable types of relationships. It’s a bad idea, and your unwillingness to consider the potentially severe ramifications of the very slippery slope on which you’re willing to jump full force is disconcerting. Marriage needs to be a sacrosanct institution that can withstand the onslaught of pernicious evils that would truly harm society.Kindest Regards,
Deplorable types of relationships like domestic violence? Incest by heterosexual fathers? Marrying off of young children to old men? Oh wait. That’s polygamy as practiced by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and today’s current day perverts. Kindest regards my ass. There are no severe ramifications. You have no kind intent, and there is no love in your heart. You just want to prove your superiority over others. What you don’t seem to realize is that you are not superior.And as in the past, your statements on this blog are going to haunt the LDS Church, just like statements like this one did:
“I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it.”–Mark E. Peterson
Or this one:
(1848 - 1877) BRIGHAM YOUNG 2nd Prophet and President
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”
This will always be so? Yeah. We all saw how that turned out….
So, Todd W., a devout and rather arrogant Mormon, thinks that Todd D., a gay ex- or non-believing Mormon, should honor Todd W’s beliefs, and not his own.
Says Todd W.:
I gather from your comment that you believe it’s okay for you to take your beliefs and enshrine them into law; but it’s not okay for me and others, who believe that redefining marriage is a bad idea, to do the same?
Now that’s irrational, as is your childish “you won’t let me have my way, therefore you don’t love me” logic.
Marriage is not an inalienable right. It’s a right granted when individuals meet certain conditions. Conditions that are defined by the people, for the people. Our laws are filled with these conditional rights (driving, drinking, running for elective office, etc.).
These marriage laws don’t make those attracted to the same sex lesser, any more than the driving laws make blind people lesser. Those who choose to be blind deserve the restrictions placed on them. Those who don’t choose to be blind might not deserve the restrictions, but they’re required to abide by them anyway because most people agree it’s best for society as a whole.
I certainly respect your right to express your views and do your best to influence those partial to your cause. I expect the same in return.
With all my love,
Todd
He is responding to this message from Todd D.
Personally, I don’t care what the Mormon or any other church believes about homosexuality or gay people. They are free to believe that god hates it and gay people will not attain the celestial kingdom or heaven or wherever they believe they will go when they die.
I do care when they try to take their beliefs and enshrine them into law and ensure I have second class status in society. As we see, people can and have taken their religious beliefs and created laws around them (Prop
And no, you do not love your gay friends when you work to teach they are lesser than you because apparently you believe they “chose” to be gay. It isn’t changeable like religion or your wall color. You treat them differently so it isn’t love, it is barely tolerance…
TW defines TD’s desire to marry, have a valid relationship with a partner, possibly have a family, make life decisions, and do ALL of the things that TW gets to do, as a conditional right NOT given to gay people. Man and woman only. Of course, the Mormons believed for years in man and WOMEN only, and still do, although they believe polygamy is a tenet that will only be practiced in the Celestial Kingdom. That, apparently, is not a problem for TW. As long as HIS rights are intact, he’s just fine. Why should someone else get the same rights as him? He’s special. I’m not sure why, but he’s telling you that marriage is a “conditional” and not an inalienable right.
So as long as it’s one man, and forty women, it’s cool, but if it’s one man and one man, somebody better get the hanging noose. (Yes, that IS sarcasm, and I realize that the Mormons and other religions are NOT going to hang gay people. So get your panties out of a wad.)
Well, TW, guess what? Did you know it used to be legal to make African Americans go to the back of the bus? Did you know it was ALSO legal to have segregated schools, so the white kids didn’t have to go to school with the black kids? Did you KNOW it used to legal to keep African Americans as SLAVES? Of course you do.
And until 1978, African Americans could not hold the LDS priesthood. Of course, after a lot of controversy, and more than one school refusing to play football against BYU because of the Church’s discriminatory stance, VOILA. There was a prophecy, and now African Americans can have every right the white Mormons do.
Of course, there is still not an apostle (of color), and the Native American who WAS an apostle was excommunicated from the church. Basically, the stance was changed to placate people. Just like the “manifesto” that ended polygamy in this life, but not after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Polygamy WAS never officially ended. It simply was “discontinued,” and until the 1940s, polygamous families were NOT excommunicated and were allowed to continue living polygamy.
Bigotry, hatred, and prejudice. All shown in the above paragraph. And yet, I know many Mormons, and I do NOT believe they feel hate. I think they are good people who don’t really understand why “the rules” are the way they are, but they believe in following their prophets, and so they do, even if they are slightly uncomfortable with “the rules.”
The stance to not allow homosexual marriage by Christians is based on the Bible. One of the most interesting quotes in the Bible, to me, is this one:
“Test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”– 1 Thessalonians 5:21
Who defines good? Everything in the Bible? Because if you follow the Bible, you BETTER get busy.
The Bible also states these little goodies:
So, why do we not follow THESE scriptures, TW? Why are you clinging to the ones that your church tells you to cling to, and not taking them ALL as literally as you are the one about homosexuality?
If you take the Bible literally, then you had best stop having sex with your wife, which I’m quite sure you still do even though there are probably not more babies in your future, because SEX is only for procreation, correct?
Please don’t sign your posts with the word “Love,” because love does not discriminate and you do not love these people. You think YOU are entitled to rights they are not. Because God said so. Of course, he also said that if you should die your wife should have intercourse with your brothers in order to bear a male heir. Are you okay with that?
Just wondering…..
Fabulous review for THE FOURTH WORLD, my newest book.
Natalie Collins is famous for her mysteries that pull back the Mormon curtain. In “The Fourth World” she reveals a whole new dimension. Cassie Clark has suffered the unthinkable. She survived a car crash in which her husband and three children were killed. After six months in the hospital and rehab center she returns home with a broken spirit and her faith in Mormonism shattered. On top of that, the only person left to care for her is her estranged mother. Wracked with pain and plagued with terrifying visions, Cassie watches helplessly as what’s left of her life explodes around her. An old friend from the past, Ray Nez shows up but by then she is no longer certain whom she can trust. Bodies are piling up and Cassie has reason to believe she could be next. Or perhaps she has simply lost her mind. Native American and Mormon cultures collide in this well-crafted whodunit. Collins’ brilliant plotting takes readers through a maze of clues, red herrings, and a long list of likely suspects to an astonishing climax. “The Fourth World” doesn’t just keep readers guessing, it could make them question their own sanity.
I thought that I really needed to make this clear, as there has been so much in the news lately, both pro and con toward the rights of gays to marry and live together, just like heterosexuals.
I completely disagree with the stance taken by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Boyd K. Packer, who said:
Same-sex attraction can be overcome and any type of union other than marriage between a man and a woman is morally wrong, an LDS apostle told millions of Mormons on Sunday.
“There are those today who not only tolerate but advocate voting to change laws that would legalize immorality, as if a vote would somehow alter the designs of God’s laws and nature,” Boyd K. Packer, president of the church’s Quorum of Twelve Apostles, said in a strongly worded sermon about the dangers of pornography and same-sex marriage. “A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. Do you think a vote to repeal the law of gravity would do any good?”
Of course, when the firestorm erupted, Packer, the senior apostle and next in line to be president, “tweaked” his official speech, cited on the LDS.org Web site:
Perhaps the most controversial paragraph in Packer’s text that he read Sunday said, “Some suppose that they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember he is our father.”
Now the word “temptations” has replaced “tendencies” and the question about God’s motives has been removed entirely.
Ah, the spin. Perhaps God needs to speak UP a little, because apparently these older apostles are a little hard of hearing, and aren’t getting the complete gist of his message until it’s too late, and people are mightily pissed off.
That said, I must make it known that while I respect Packer’s right to believe as he does, I do not support his hatred and fear of homosexuals. Surely hate and civil injustice, including discrimination, are sins?
I love the sinner, but hate the sin.
Jesus said love everyone. This is an LDS Church teaching.
Jesus said love ev’ryone;
Treat them kindly, too.
When your heart is filled with love,
Others will love you.
Words and music: Moiselle Renstrom, 1889–1956
Let’s love, not hate.
Hello all,
I am celebrating the release of one brand new book, THE FOURTH WORLD, with the re-release of two other books in e-format, SISTERWIFE and TWISTED SISTER. I figure that’s worth some fun, so I will be giving away not one, but TWO Kindles. One will go to a random “liker” on Facebook. All you have to do is go to FB, and “like” my fan page (and of course, stay there at least until the contest is over).
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Natalie-R-Collins-Fan-Page/114983648525167
The other way to win is to buy one of the three books, review it on Amazon, and send me a copy of the review as proof.
SisterWife
ttp://tinyurl.com/2b2c8zs
Twisted Sister
[tinyurl.com]
The Fourth World
[tinyurl.com]
Hope to see you in the contest! Really hope you’ll read my newest books.
Heard this a lot in the past few days. Pretty damn sick of it. I always get accused of hating Mormons, which is TOTALLY untrue. I love a lot of Mormons. Just don’t like the doctrine.
So, here’s my new response to their “love the sinner, hate the sin” crap.
Love the Mormons, hate the doctrine.
I’m excited to announce that my newest release, THE FOURTH WORLD, is out now and available for purchase in Kindle, from Binary Press Publications.
A woman with implicit faith in the teachings of her religion, Cassie Clark finds her sheltered world decimated when her loving husband and two young children are killed in a fiery automobile accident. She is thrown free of the wreck, but critically injured. As she heals, she is torn between the relief she feels knowing her children are in the Celestial Kingdom with her husband, awaiting her eventual return to them, and intense anger at God for destroying her life and her family.
She is forced to come to terms with her estranged mother, reconcile her now cold and distant in-laws, and worst of all, visions that seem to replay the accident. When they take a different course, she is forced to turn to Raymond Nez, a member of the Navajo Nation and tribal police, and Cassie’s childhood sweetheart.
Cassie’s visions take her into the fourth world, where danger lurks, and she may not come out whole, if she comes out at all.
Hope you’ll check it out.
…So much to blog about.
For now, I’ll keep this brief.
Dear Boyd K. Packer,
You are a moron. You have no training, no education, no knowledge that GIVES YOU THE RIGHT to tell anyone that same-sex attraction can change. Should we forward all the suicide notes to your house? I think that would be appropriate. YOU can deal with the deaths you undoubtedly caused….
Sincerely, Natalie
****
And then there was THIS comment on my blog this morning.
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I love how non-LDS members try to preach what trust LDS members believe. It’s funny and quite entertaining, but unless you are actually a practicing Mormon and non a FLDS or anything of the sort, your facts are flaud.
Dear Allison,
I am not a “Non-LDS member.” I don’t even think that is POSSIBLE, When you are a MEMBER, you are A MEMBER. There’s no special section in the church for NON-LDS Members. And anyone who can’t spell “flawed” should not be allowed to claim my facts are incorrect. YOU are wrong. And you need to use Spell Check.
Love, Natalie
…what do you do?
A friend of mine is dying. She has, the doctors say, five months, which in layman terms means we probably won’t see her through Christmas. And she has a daughter the same age as my own youngest daughter. A child who will be left as an orphan, since her own father committed suicide when she was much younger.
The term orphan brings up images of Oliver Twist, or Annie, but life is rarely a musical and Daddy Warbucks only exists in the cartoons. Of course there are family and friends that will take her in. But she will always be missing something, a part of her that should never be taken. A mother.
I wonder strange things tonight after hearing this news. I mean, we knew it was coming, but still… this is pretty final. The tumors have doubled. No more chemo. Quality over quantity.
What, I thought, would happen to her cell phone number? I texted her tonight just to say, “hey, we love you,” and then I thought, when she is gone, where will that text go? Some other random person in this state will be assigned that number, and that “hey, we love you,” will mean absolutely nothing to them. They might even think they have a stalker. They won’t understand that this modern-technology, cell phones and texting, has connected me with someone else in a way nothing else could. We live miles apart, but I knew in seconds how she was feeling.
Of course, I knew before, because I have often wondered how my own children would feel should they lose their mother. It’s one reason I don’t understand suicide. How do you DO that to your family and children? How do you leave them wondering if they could have done something, or if it was their fault?
Cancer is a final and thorough demon. It usually finishes what it starts. We hear success stories now and then. More often, we read obituaries.
I suppose, in a way, I can understand why so many around me cling to their Mormon faith, because it offers answers for the questions. Answers for “what happens after?” Perhaps I am too much of a cynic, because I don’t believe that wearing special underwear, or paying your money to a church, or faithfully attending a service is going to make you SAFE and keep you away from that UNKNOWN.
Your money would be better spent for research to find a cure, or put out to comfort children and families who are dealing with the demon monster, the big C.
When my oldest daughter was six, she became very ill and I took her to her primary care physician. I’ve always trusted this doctor, so when she said to me, “I don’t know, Natalie, I don’t feel good about this, and I think you should take her to the hospital,” I did.
I took her to Primary Children’s Medical Center, where another doctor confirmed she had meningitis. The problem was, they did not know if it was the deadly bacterial meningitis or the viral kind, which is miserable but most survive. They did a spinal tap. It was inconclusive. They hospitalized her overnight, on antibiotics, and I spent the night on a hard, lonely, cot/bed, listening to the poor girl in the next room throw up and cry all night long. I asked the nurse, and she said one word. “Chemo.”
My daughter recovered, fortunate to have the viral and not bacterial meningitis, but about three weeks later I saw the obituary of the 12-year-old girl in the room next to us.
Did her parents wonder what they did wrong, what they could have done differently, to save her?
Did they wonder why this God so many pray to is so brutal and unforgiving, saving some, and passing others over without a glance?
I’m not an atheist. At best I am agnostic. I am well aware I don’t have all the answers, and will undoubtedly keep asking the questions for as long as I am able.
But I wonder…. When I text my friend’s number in a few months or so, who will answer? Will it be her? Or will my message be received with confusion and fear? With anger? They won’t know the story. They won’t care.
But I do. I always will.
The American Psychological Association has advised mental health professionals against telling their clients they can change their sexual orientation through therapy or other treatments, saying doing so has the potential for harm.
The “long-standing consensus” of the behavioral and social sciences, the APA noted in a report last year, is that homosexuality is a “normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.”
Of course, the God that speaks through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not give a rat’s ass what the APA thinks. They have one of the oddest views on homosexuality I have EVER run across. They don’t preach hate, like some of those moronic preachers, but they also do not preach acceptance. In fact, what the LDS Church has to say is downright contradictory. If a gay person wasn’t confused enough, ask a Mormon leader for guidance. At that point, you will want a frontal lobotomy. It’ll just be easier.
Evergreen met yesterday, and is their long-standing tradition, they were addressed by a leader of the McMo Church.
An LDS general authority on Saturday comforted Mormons who are attracted to people of the same sex but want to live by the church’s chastity rules, which bar sexual acts outside of marriage between a man and a woman.
“Each of us has problems,” said Bishop Keith B. McMullin, second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Together, we shall overcome them.”
Comforted them? Are you kidding me? So guess HOW they want you to overcome them? Why, yes, let’s DIMINISH those yearnings. We accept they are real, and normal, but we don’t like them. So either play on the right team, or remain celibate and lonely the rest of your life. And what’s this “together” crap Bishop McMullin? You’re telling these lonely people that YOU don’t go home to a wife every night? I find that a little hard to believe.
On Saturday, McMullin said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.
What SHOULD they call themselves? Mutants? Because that is what you are saying boils down to. If it were “that easy,” no one would be gay. If prayer worked, then you would never see a woman kissing another woman or a man kissing another man, because society still does not accept it. Why would someone choose it? It isn’t that simple, and it’s demeaning and degrading to imply that it is.
“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”
He said every individual is a “son or daughter” of God. Jesus Christ, McMullin said, has the power to lift the “burden” of every “man and woman, boy and girl.”
If every individual is a son or daughter of God, then he created them. And if HE created them, then obviously he doesn’t think homosexuality is wrong, or he would have made them straight! It’s not that hard to figure out.
If they aren’t homosexual, what are they? And if you acknowledge that same-sex yearnings are not a sin, but acting upon them is, then just what the hell comes next? Electroshock therapy like they used to do at BYU?
I wish I could say “you’ve come a long way, baby,” but LDS Church you HAVEN’T. You may not be carrying banners that say “God hates fags,” and I appreciate that, but you are still telling a gay person that they are WRONG, abnormal, and that if they just pray, God will take that away. Ask the family of a gay man who finally gave in to his orientation, and left behind a train wreck of stunned children and a distraught spouse. Gay is gay. Making a gay person marry a straight person of the opposite sex leads to tragedy over and over and over again.
It’s not that hard to figure out. Comfort my ass.
Barbara Bradshaw Smith, who was the face and focal point of the LDS Church’s battle against the Equal Rights Amendment, died yesterday at the age of 88. According to The Salt Lake Tribune:
On national television and newspaper front pages, she was the well-dressed, soft-spoken woman who became the face of LDS Church opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment.
But while Barbara Bradshaw Smith helped lead the faith’s fight against the failed constitutional amendment, she also sought to expand women’s roles, saying she supported additional rights but not the ERA.
The former LDS Relief Society president, who suffered from pulmonary fibrosis, died Monday at age 88 in Salt Lake City.
Now, I remember this fun little fight against the ERA, which always has perplexed me. And how the LDS leaders (read MEN) talked all their women into going along with this ALWAYS perplexed me. Because it WAS the Mormon women who led the fight, with the men behind them, using them like puppets with a hand sticking up their back, telling them when to open their mouths, and what to say. AND HOW TO THINK.
From the Trib article:
Smith also was at the center of the controversial 1977 International Women’s Year Conference in Salt Lake City. Critics claimed LDS women took over the gathering on orders of church officials in an effort to thwart the ERA.
I remember my mother attending that conference, like so many other Mormon women, dutifully doing their part to keep MEN in control. Now the LDS apologists and defenders might jump in here and say the Mormon Church offers MORE to women than ANY OTHER CHURCH. I’ve always found this interesting, since:
1. In order to make it into the Celestial Kingdom, the highest of all God’s kingdoms, you have to be pulled through the “veil” by a MAN. In short, if you aren’t married in the temple, and some dude doesn’t know your SECRET name, although you don’t get to know his, then you ain’t getting the shot at the top glory. Hello Telestial. Or is it Terrestial. I don’t remember. But, hey, you get the point. A woman’s SALVATION, at the end of the line, is totally in the hands of a man. If that man doesn’t want to let her in, well, she’s screwed.
2. Only a man can hold the “Holy Priesthood.” Women, they say, get to hold it “through” their priesthood holder. Sorta like that game we used to play at my friends house, when we were young and dumb, and we’d all hold hands and the one at the front (always a boy) would touch the electric fence and the rest of us would wait to feel the shock course through our bodies. Hey, we lived in rural Farmington. It livened things up a little.
3. The thing I remember most about the Church’s fight against the ERA is the fear tactics used. I remember hearing them. “If it passes girls and boys will have to take gym together and shower together.” Gasp. OMG. Yikies. Um, why?
Yeah, that pretty much is what it was all about. Fear and stupidity.
So what I am wondering is WHAT DID the ERA really threaten? Why are people so scuared of equality, and partnership? I remember jumping a little at the electrical current, which you really only felt if you were at the front of the line, and thinking, “Why did I do that? That wasn’t fun.”
Yeah. Not fun. Godspeed Barbara Bradshaw Smith. Here’s hoping your husband remembered your secret temple name so you got into the Celestial kingdom okay. (Here’s a hint: they used the same name for all women who went through the temple that day. All you gotta do is find someone who was there on the day you were. Although they probably won’t tell you, because it’s secret. TOP SECRET. Hmm. Well, good luck in the hereafter.)
Okay, well, not really, but YEAH, really, Warren Jeffs is a total loser. And a coward. And without all his loyal FLDS subjects around him, Warren Jeffs is terrified. He is afraid of BIG BAD TEXAS. I don’t blame him. In Texas, they weren’t afraid to go after the cult that the FLDS religion is. He is fighting extradition to Texas.
In my book SisterWife (which will be reissued in e-format, for the Kindle shortly!), I had a “prophet” character like him. Only this guy had charisma and looks and all those things you need to lure people into your cult.
Jeffs has NONE of that. He’s just a big nerd. He INHERITED all his loyal followers. And he even admitted that he didn’t think he was a prophet. He’s probably known that for years. Maybe all his life. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.
Religion that is handed down from generation to generation seems to be a far more dangerous thing, because it is a burning match in your hand. If you throw the match away, still lit, you could cause a fire that will bring about catastrophic devastation to the world in which your family has chosen to live in. If you blow the match out, the fire is gone, and it is cold. And if you refuse to accept the match? Who knows what might happen.
There is no doubt that WRF aka Jeffs dealt with all of these decisions, but he chose to keep the match, and randomly light fires whenever he felt like it. He destroyed lives. It’s almost worse. In fact it IS worse, because he admitted he does not really believe he is a prophet. He was doing what he had to know was wrong without ANY SORT OF BELIEF in it.
He is, in short, a pedophile and a criminal using religion to explain away his crimes. He isn’t the first. He won’t be the last.
I think he will get justice in Texas, and not in Utah, because there are so many people here that are still tied to polygamy.
Send him to Texas where they have the big guns….
Check out Robert Kirby’s experiences at Burning Man. Fascinating stuff.
If you are under the age of 18, please do not read below. Yeah, I know. I just pretty much assured that anyone who IS under the age of 18 and happens upon this blog will now read below, because it’s one of those, “The light, the light, I can’t look away….” type thingies.
An acquaintance of mine who is writing a book recently contacted me to ask for some help with research. And so I referred him to a friend that I shall call MetalMan. I don’t identify people by name on this blog, as in the past I have been stalked and harassed by certain crazy people who shall ALSO remain unnamed, because if I say that certain person’s name, they will surely hunt me down again and . . I do not wish this on anyone. This strange semi-celebrity that comes with being an author is just weird.
MetalMan sent some time reading my blog, and then sent me this fascinating information about the LDS singles scene. He gave me permission to share it.
I was reading your blog last night and thought I might share something’s that are going on in the LDS singles community.
You may already know about these issues, but I will tell you anyway just in case:In the temple ceremony there is a line that use to go something like this: I covenant to have sexual intercourse, only with my legally and lawfully wedded husband/wife.
Now it reads: sexual relations instead of intercourse.It gave LDS singles an out, so they could enjoy any sex except intercourse. LDS singles could enjoy mutual hand jobs, shared oral sex, whatever, now there is nothing. Couples are breaking up because they want to have sex with each other and they aren’t ready to get married, even if they are in love.
Some couples are getting married after knowing each other a short time and getting divorced in a short time.
Some LDS singles refuse to go out, because they know they won’t be able to resist having sexual relations with someone. So they live in loneliness.
Some singles, after confessing to their bishops, are being advised to break it off with their partners, if they are having sex outside of marriage, even if they are in love.
Bishops are asking promiscuous singles, who their sex partners are, then sending the information on to the partner’s Bishop so they can discipline that person.
In short, there used to be an OUT for Mormon singles. I did not realize this as a Molly. Although I was never a very good Molly. I always thought the private stuff was to stay private, and any kind of sex was a huge sin. Still working through those issues, even though I KNOW it’s silly.
But being a single LDS person is a tough road. Base human nature requires we touch other humans. Babies who are not held die. The human touch, and intimacy, is a very strong drive, and I know that even for those of us outside of the Mormon community, the intimacy of touch shared with another human being is one of the greatest losses of being single.
Now, the LDS Church would like to TOTALLY take that right away from all homosexuals, even while admitting that they do not believe homosexuality is a choice. WTF? If you know it’s not a choice, and there are already too many people in this world, why DO YOU CARE? Why are you spending millions of dollars to STOP people from TOUCHING each other, which is a very basic human need.
How can this be justified?
Religion seems to bring out the worst in some people.
And for others, it’s making them very, very funny.
So, apparently, the federal judge who overturned the hateful Proposition 8, is gay. Wow! Crazy! It’s a conspiracy! Heterosexual marriage as we know it is O.V.E.R. Because everybody knows that once gay couples can marry, all the heterosexuals are going to…uh, well all of them will most likely stop having sex with each other because…. Uh. Well, Dammit, somehow or another it’s going to affect marriage as we know it. Instead of two people making a commitment to each other, it will be… Hmmm.
Yeah, basically I can’t see how gay marriage is ANY threat to straight people. Procreation really isn’t a problem, because this world is already overcrowded. And there are plenty of babies being born every day. And the only time a marriage is threatened by an outside homosexual is when the OTHER person in the marriage is already homosexual and has been fighting it for years, because of THE CHURCH or SOCIETY told them it was wrong to be gay.
And as for Walker being gay, who gives a rat’s ass? If you use the theory that he should not be allowed to rule on Proposition 8 because of his own orientation, then you will have to go back and review all the cases where male judges made decisions regarding males, and female judges made decisions on females, and where homosexual judges make rulings on homosexual cases and where heterosexual judges made rulings on heterosexual cases.
Frankly, Walker was appointed by Bush, so the right wing conservatives have only themselves to blame. Heh.
But it will be interesting to see the newest tactics of the Mormons to try to keep those pesky gay people from… uh… living happy, productive, passionate lives.
As I’m sure everyone knows, in a huge blow for the h8ters, California’s stupid Prop 8 was overturned.
I’m sure that the apostles of the Mormon Church are gathered together today in a lush conference room somewhere in the Joseph Smith Building, and discussing their NEXT game plan.
Despite the fact it should NOT be one, it is indeed a very religious issue.
Will be interesting to see what happens. But for now….
YAY! Love is love. And everyone deserves the right to marry.
I just read that the first Native American General Authority died today. George P. Lee was popular in the “white and delightsome” days of the Book of Mormon, before it was changed from “white” to “pure.”
I am getting ready to publish a book that explores the LDS Church’s Indian Placement Program, and all the discrimination and problems that went with it, including Spencer W. Kimball’s emphasis, “See those kids there. They are in our church, so they are getting whiter. WHOOPEE.” (I paraphrased that. Big time. BIIIIIG time. Just so you know.) What SWK really said was:
“… the Indians “are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.” He said, “The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation” (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3).
Of course, these days, the “most correct” book on earth, The Book of Mormon, which has been altered and edited thousands of times, says it is PURE and delightsome. How does one answer that one?
I can’t wait to see the discussions on this one.
Frankly, the Indian (Lamanite Placement Program) was nothing short of a dismal failure. It is no longer in practice, although I have fond memories of two “Navajo” brothers that lived in our already crowded house. They went on to lead regular, Native American lives, having nothing to do with Mormonism. Can’t say I blame them.
A church that wants you to be “whiter” to fit in just doesn’t really cut it.
George P. Lee was a rather tragic figure, as he was later excommunicated from the LDS Church and accused of sexual abuse. Actually, I believe he “admitted to attempted” child sex abuse.
Boy was that a black eye for the IPP and the Church. They didn’t play that game again. No Native American has been a general authority since, and probably hasn’t really wanted to do so.
But it brings forth lots of issues and questions about the propriety of baptizing Native American children and bringing them into homes and trying to make them white. And that is EXACTLY what the church was trying to do. And why did the Native American parents agree to it? Let’s see, a chance to live in a “rich, white” community and go to a “rich, white” school and get a “rich, white” education. I can’t say I blame them. I understand them wanting more for their children.
I am just unsure they got it. I would love to hear some positive stories, or just stories about this in children.
So discuss, folks.
I just ordered a pizza FROM THE INTERNET. FROM MY BED. Now don’t get the wrong idea. I do not weigh 1000 pounds and I won’t be eating the pizza myself. I can’t have wheat or bread, so the pizza is for Birdman and Dancing Daughter. And I am suffering from a Meniere’s day, so food doesn’t tickle my fancy.
But PEOPLE, I ordered a PIZZA from my bed. That’s cool.
Ya know, the lovely talk of civility, and the smell of Todd in the air, still doesn’t change the fact that I JUST wanted him to answer the question. And he has NOT answered the question.
Why? Todd, why not? I’m not going to call you names, or insult you. But PLEASE answer the question.
In case you have forgotten, here it is:
If there is a first vision, WHY ARE THERE THREE OR MORE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF IT?
With different people. Written differently. Edited, perhaps. WHY? Why, if God came to Joseph Smith when he was 14 did he CHANGE THE STORY so many times?
Answer that.
For the very first time on this blog, ANSWER THE QUESTION. And if you don’t, we all know the fraud you are. And the fraud the Church you support is.
Look, I was involved in the ex-Mormon conference where we tried to open a dialogue with Mormons, and involve the two groups together. It was a complete failure. If we DON’T believe what they believe, they won’t listen. End of story. So it’s okay. You can admonish me, or advise me, and JA and Kent, I get your point. But see, I’ve been there, done that, got the T-shirt. If you show weakness, they move in for the kill. I choose to not show that weakness. Civility will not work. Tried it. But, I promise I will be civil for an ENTIRE MONTH if Todd will JUST address my question, quoted above? Fair nuff?
… My life will change. For I am choosing to take a big step. I will marry Birdman tomorrow, because I feel we need the commitment, and so does he. For our children. For us. For life.
I have had many nasty comments, and emails, from this blog. I have dealt with them. But tomorrow my life starts new. Completely new. Over. And I feel very positive about this.
My point? Send your nasty emails and comments. Call me names (Todd), or call me out. I will answer. I can be called out, and I am not afraid to answer. I am also not afraid to admit when I am wrong.
And this, I think, is why Birdman and I will work. Because not only is HE not afraid to admit when he is wrong, but neither am I. That, folks, is the bottom line. Truth is only truth as far as you can prove it. TRUTH doesn’t come from something that has no bearings, background, facts, or baseline sensibility.
The truth is, I don’t know what will happen tomorrow, but if I hurt Birdman, I apologize. And he apologizes to me if he hurts me. We are a man and a woman, both so different, but both so willing to make it work.
Tomorrow is a new day. I wish you all a new day. I am lucky. I know this. I hope the same for all of you.
